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  • For those who bear the burden of introducing me at a conference...
    Katie Delahaye Paine (twitter: KDPaine) is the CEO and founder of KDPaine & Partners LLC and author of, Measuring Public Relationships, the data-driven communicators guide to measuring success. She also writes the first blog and the first newsletters dedicated entirely to measurement and accountability. In the last two decades, she and her firm have listened to millions of conversations, analyzed thousands of articles, and asked hundreds of question in order to help her clients better understand their relationships with their constituencies. People talk, we listen..

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« Another way to measure PR value | Main | It's not the size that counts »

December 29, 2005

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference John you're a menace, not a heretic :

» I'm not a heretic, a menace or a dinosaur ... but I still question the reliability of some measurement tools from On Message from Wagner Communications
Katie Payne says I'm a menace and a dinosaur for dissing the value of some PR measurement tools. But I'm just looking at the subject objectively. Katie says circulation figures are an accurate way of determining the value of your PR efforts, in part... [Read More]

» The heretic and the number cruncher from a shel of my former self
John Wagner wasnt too impressed when Katie Paine introduced a new metric she dubbed PR Value Ratio. Wagner, owner and principal of Houstonbased Wagner Communications, has posted several subsequent items that elaborate on his position that... [Read More]

» Measurement and validity from scale|free
I've been following with some interest the lively debate that's been going on between John Wagner and Katie Payne about the value of measuring PR communication. John Wagner essentially kicked it all off with his post questioning the value of [Read More]

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Kami Huyse

Katie: I think that this debate shows how critical it is for PR practioners to know more about low to no-cost measurement tools.

There are many clients out there that can't afford the big guns liek KD Paine. John serves mostly local and reginal clients who have an even harder time with measurement that corporate America did (and sometimes still does).

That is why I like your PRV measurement. It can be done by anyone. Thanks for sharing it.

Piaras Kelly

PR practitioners should concentrate on setting better objectives and then it'll be easier for them to evaluate whether they were a success or not. How do you know if you've scored if you don't know where the goalposts are?

I don't think that there's a one-size-fits-all solution for PR measurement and I don't think that anyone could ever create one because of the scope of a communications strategy. One project might involve the web, another word-of-mouth, I don't think the same measurement tool can measure both accurately. Your success depends on the objectives you set for yourself.

John Wagner

Katie:

I'm not really a menace ... as I said in my post, I believe there are times when measurement works. I even included an example of a program I was involved in where accurate measurement played a big role in determining the overall value of the effort. I could give you several others.

At the same time, I don't believe it's a "spurious argument" to say that you can't measure how many people read, understand or care about a news article. It goes to the very heart of the accuracy of your measurement.

The fact that advertising firms use those same metrics doesn't make them correct. And traditional advertising is dying a slow death while media buyers continue to flash fake reports of how many "eyeballs" saw a particular ad.

The other issue that I mentioned will always be with us -- it's expensive, time-consuming and sometimes difficult to measure accurately the impact of a particular program. Clients and organizations don't always want to pay for that, and what agency is going to turn down business because the client won't measure? None I know of.

I'm not against showing up "at the table" with facts and figures. But senior executives aren't fooled by many of the tools that are currently in use.


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Measure What Matters

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